America founded on Biblical principles

My uncle wrote this. I thought it was interesting. -Fat

In a recent article, an attendee of a local gathering in observance of the National Day of Prayer alleged, “Our nation was founded on biblical principles.”

To the extent that our Founding Fathers had any religious affiliation at all, it was a tepid embracing of the philosophy of deism, a popular system of thought at the time. Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, among many others, held deist, rather than Christian, religious beliefs.

The two documents upon which our country was actually founded — i.e., the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States — contain not a word about Christianity, Christian principles, the Bible or Jesus Christ. Neither is there any mention of the Ten Commandments, heaven, prayer or being saved.

In 1797, the Treaty of Tripoli, negotiated by none other than George Washington, declared that “the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Congress unanimously approved the text of this treaty, and John Adams signed it.

Mandatory church affiliation, among other factors, led to the establishment of the term a “wall of separation between church and state,” allowing, at each citizen’s discretion, freedom of religion or freedom from religion.

The phrase “under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, and our national motto became “In God We Trust” in 1956 in response to USSRs’ so-called “godless Communists.” It is historically incorrect to claim that America was founded upon Christianity.

Indeed, it was quite the opposite.


Author: FatFinger

From Cannibal Corpe's "Rotting Head": A quivering pile of useless flesh, locked in a padded cell Hidden from the prying eyes of curiosity Experimental surgery made him what he is today His head is rotting but his body lives on as a worthless vegetable Unknown to mankind, the incredible power of his mind

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  1. Hey Guys, Just wanted to let you know I’m still here and doing OK. It’s been a few years now… Hope you all are doing OK… I’d say more but don’t want to upset anyone… You know how I do that…

  2. The truth can be amusing, particularly when ones eyes are blinded.

  3. George Washington
    You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.122
    While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.123
    The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.124
    I now make it my earnest prayer that God would… most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of the mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion.125

    John Adams
    The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1
    The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation.2
    Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean hell.3
    The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.4
    Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!5
    I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.6

  4. Excellent points altogether, you simply won a new reader. What could you recommend about your post that you made a few days in the past? Any sure?

  5. I’ve decided John is messing with us.

    Kudos to him for taking it so far.

  6. Just wanted to say hi. It has been over a year. Hope you guys are doing alright.

  7. What I don’t get is, if you KNOW you’re too uneducated and under-qualified to get in an intellectual debate, what makes you think anything you believe is right? Wouldn’t your ignorance make everything you believe suspect?

    It’s that “I ain’t the smartest guy in the room, but I have a gut feeling” mentality that got us into 2 unwinnable wars and a second term with a dunce president.

  8. Shut up you fucking troll.

    You’ve played the “poor ignorant turd, too dumb to win this argument” card to death. What you’re too ignorant for is critical thinking, which makes me sad for you. If I was a praying man, I’d pray for you.

    Instead, I’ll probably forget about you until next time you feel like you need to let a bunch of strangers who generally think you’re a stubborn dumbass know what you’re thinking.

  9. I think your right. I do need to stay off here. No one said anything for so long so I thought I would just make a few comments about what I was thinking. Your right, I don’t have much education. I have, however learned a few things in life. I guess not enough to converse with you guys. It was never my intent to get under your skin. I disagree with almost everything you guys stand for but I do respect you and your privilege to express yourself. Sorry if I offended anyone.

  10. Thank you, Raffles, Digit.

    I won’t block this guy. I like the idea that he wastes so much time trying to convert us when we all know it’s not going to work and with every word, he just digs himself a deeper and deeper hole in the Swamp of Stupid.

    I mean, really, with as many grammatical and logical failings, do you think it’s a great idea to mention your education as something you’re PROUD of?

  11. Dear John,

    Raffles said it eloquently.
    Allow me to say it crudely.



  12. could someone block this guy? seriously he’s not offered any new arguments, all he is doing is attempting to proselytize with his false humbleness. time and again we’ve asked him numerous questions which he either avoids or if he does answer them its in a such a manner as to completely disregard any points which do not agree with his point of view. i’d say he was merely ignorant but im tired of attempting to be polite to people who are wantonly STUPID.

    look john if you want to believe in jesus and the magic wishing well that is your god (without proof mind), go right on ahead but i’m fairly certain no one here is interested in being proselytized too. i dont take issue with other peoples beliefs so long as they dont attempt to impose them on others. what i do take offense too however, is your poor excuse for a history education which you look to foist on others… suffice to say, i do not suffer such fools as you easily.

    so all this being said, to anyone else reading this, the founders and framers of our nation were not all vehemently christian or vehemently atheist. as a matter of FACT, they happened to be a group of people whose beliefs covered a wide spectrum of ideas and notions. our nation, these united states, was created as a secular nation where the power came from and resided in the people… they are the arbiters here, no higher power then that is need. want proof? just look at the first line of the constitution (oh and all the memoirs biographies, histories and accounts of the founding of our nation… the academic ones, not the politically/religiously motivated crap this guy ascribes too)…

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    have a nice day

  13. I wish you all would reconsider
    You all do not and never will understand everything about this world in which you live. God created this world and as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are His ways higher than your ways, and His thoughts higher that your thoughts. Seek the Lord while He is may be found, call upon Him while he is near. Return to the Lord and He will have mercy and will abundantly pardon.
    The United States of America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth. It is the nation I was born in, the nation I grew up in, the nation I was educated in, the nation I live in. It is the nation I love, the nation that protects me from invasion from foreigners, the nation that provides me with a government that allows me to have a say. I love the United States of America. The United States of America is truly the greatest nation on the face of the earth.
    The United States is not great because of our armies, or wealth, or our people. It is because God gave his understanding and heart to our forefathers when they formed this great nation. The United States of America will remain strong only as long as its people seek God, and remain true to him.
    Have you ever wondered just where you are in life… or where you are in comparison with others or in comparison with where you think you should be? I spend a lot of time wondering just where I should be. Maybe a lot of us do… I started to say all of us do… A few years ago I think I would have said all of us do, but not now… Now I really do believe that a lot of people never really consider where they are in life… I think many people any more only think about what they want right now and what they will want tomorrow… Who or what should I compare myself to? Should I be comparing myself with anyone or anything? At this time I really don’t know… If I should be comparing myself to anyone or anything then what is it? You may be thinking that if being a Christian and believing in God is such a great idea then why do I seem so confused about many things concerning life. I am not sure, but I do believe there are many things about tomorrow I don’t seem to understand but I know who holds tomorrow and I know who holds my hand.

  14. Kerist!

  15. I KNEW I was missing a part of it, but for the life of me I couldn’t remember what. Thanks, Raff!

  16. oh digit, you forgot to mention the best bit about pascals wager… what if he’s wrong about the god he’s worshiping?? heh there are millions of muslims (not to mention other sects of christianity along with judaism and those are just the abrahamic religions!) out there who have just as much likelihood of being right as you do john (and they believe as fervently that they are right)… so what if you’re wrong? don’t answer that though, its predominately a rhetorical question meant to demonstrate the ridiculousness of that particular argument. have a pleasent day.

  17. John, what you’re espousing there is Pascal’s Wager. Basically it says, if there is a god and you don’t believe, you’ve lost everything. If there isn’t a god and you do believe, you’ve lost nothing.
    But that’s a very flawed argument. If there isn’t a god and I do believe, I have lost a lot. I have dedicated time and energy to something that’s not true. I’ve lived a lie. I’ve willfully endured suffering and ignorance in the only life I have based on a promise that’s not true. Being godless allows me to choose. I choose to be good, I choose to be kind, I choose to be empathic, I choose to be moral because being otherwise would make other’s lives more difficult and would make my life much more difficult. I also choose to embrace the wonders of this life rather than rejecting them because of someone’s imaginary rules. Being godless allows me to be good BECAUSE I’M GOOD, not because someone requires me to be good.

  18. ok.

  19. Just… stop. You haven’t died and gone to heaven.

    At this point, I’m ready to agree that you’re wrong and let you disagree with that. Just stop with your illogical argument and aggressive public ignorance!

  20. I really don’t like that phrase either but I guess I have become very discouraged after all this time. Nothing I say seems to affect you guys. That’s why I get so angry with myself to the point that I knock myself and feel ignorant because I can’t figure out a way to say that one thing that will make you see where I’m coming from. If I’m right and you leave this world without Christ, you have a whole lot more to lose that I do if your right. If there is no God then what’s the big deal about anything.
    I don’t beieve the Bible because I just think it sort of seems like a good alternative. I belive it because I have trusted and tested and tried it and I know that Gods promises are true.

  21. UGH!! I hate that phrase! “Let’s just agree to disagree.” No, let’s not. There are certain things you may disagree with me on, but if you’re wrong, then why would I let you go on thinking that?

    I think this sums it up pretty well.

  22. Raffles, Your right guy, I guess I really didn’t say it quite right. I don’t think I am stupid but sometimes I do think I’m a little below normal as far as quickly comprehending information I have read once over. I guess what I meant to say was that I don’t have a photographic memory…I have to ponder things a little longer than most I think. At any rate I do respect you all for standing your ground in what you believe as well as what you don’t believe. I do wish you all well. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I wish I was intelligent enough to put into words what I would like to convey to you but I guess even if I did you still have that right to choose… The Bible I believe in says to choose you today who you will serve. We all have to make that decision and as for me I will serve the Lord. Your right Raffles. I don’t know you.

  23. your quote sir:

    “The older I get the more I think I’m about half way between normal and stupid. I am very envious of people who can read a chapter out of a book and know and remember what they have read and are able to express what they have read very intelligently so that most if not all can understand it, at least to some degree. I’m not one of them.”

    that suggests to me someone who believes themselves to be incapable of certain basic levels of understanding. its stated there in your own words. you say you are incapable of reading a chapter out of a book and remembering it. you follow this by stating, “The Bible tells me all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” which in and of itself demeans not only you but the entirety of humanity suggesting that we are all intrinsically of little or no value.

    your god purports to be benevolent and loving no? tell me, what loving being would create creatures in a state of sickness (i.e. sin) and then command them to be well when it calls for us to be against our very nature?

    i might also note sir that you know me hardly at all and for you to state that you do is asinine.

  24. Raffles, After you read my last message and then quoted me as saying I saw myself as worthless and incapable of any understanding makes me wonder if this is the way you come up with your assumptions or proof of anything. If it is, you might want to take a little closer look at yourself.I quess I could go back through what I said and explain exactly what I meant but I know you well enough to know it wouldn’t do any good because you have your mind made up. When you read or hear a statement you stretch it in the direction you are going like hot gum on a July sidewalk… You step on it and it stretches in the direction you are going. Much of what I hear is hot gum stuck on my shoe.

  25. Its truly amazing what such a strident belief in a god will do to a person. This belief has made him into someone that sees himself as worthless and incapable of any understanding.

    Indeed John, you’re even of the notion that you’re stupid and maybe even to the extent that you were born so. Perhaps that has been reinforced by your dealings with others but it starts with you and your personal beliefs. To be honest John, you’re not “stupid” in the sense that you are incapable. Willfully ignorant so as to lead to stupid actions and beliefs, yes, that would probably be appropriate. But stupid as an underlying element of your personal being? No. You have potential, just as everyone does, its whether you choose to explore that potential that defines you as an individual. Unfortunately, you have neglected much by choosing not to explore and for that I truly pity you.

  26. Well then John, as a self admitted non-intellectual, you’ll have to trust me when I tell you, you haven’t given it enough thought.

    And you never will.

  27. Guys, just incase you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m not that smart. When I was younger I thought I was probably somewhere around normal. The older I get the more I think I’m about half way between normal and stupid. I am very envious of people who can read a chapter out of a book and know and remember what they have read and are able to express what they have read very intelligently so that most if not all can understand it, at least to some degree. I’m not one of them.
    The Bible tells me all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
    Adam and Eve sinned. God commanded them not to eat of the tree of knowledge and of good and of evil and they did. After that they were no longer in right standing with God.
    The evil serpent said God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
    I do not know why the serpent was allowed to come on the scene.
    I believe the Bible teaches Adam and Eve was living in a perfect world. Maybe they didn’t need to know all about the difference between good and evil. I believe they knew enough about right and wrong to know they were to obey the creator of all things.
    Man is very good at turning things around. An attorney can take the truth and make it look like a lie and take a lie and make it look like the truth. We all know that. I am not that good at playing word games. There is an old church hymn that says “Many things about tomorrow I don’t seem to understand, but I know you holds tomorrow and I know who holds my hand”. Does that mean we are not supposed to read and study and learn about things we don’t understand? Of course not.
    You can call it being hard headed or complacent or what ever you want. We all have to make certain decisions about some things whether we understand everything about it or not. I have made a decision to believe in God and His Word. If someone puts something out there that points away from the truths that are written in the word of God I am not going to accept it. I might read it and think about a little bit but I’m not going to soak my brain in it. Yes I believe it’s OK to believe in something and to stand for something you believe in. I have that right. I made that choice. I didn’t have to. I have no one to impress. I made that choice.

  28. The history of science has been a steady and inevitable replacement of superstition with fact. What was once attributed to god is now understood. What makes you think that steady change will ever cease? That which you attribute to god will inevitably be explained rationally until all you have left is a myopic, white knuckle belief that he exists at all. When I observed my parents wrapping my christmas gifts, I stopped believing in Santa Claus because the only evidence I had for his existence was disproved.

  29. Digit, The theory of evolution and creationism is equal in a philosophical debate. I agree with what you said but I personally think evolutionists are involved at least some in the subject of creation verses the big bang theory. I think the term evolution has a much broader meaning today than it did during the 19th century. I agree with you though. I’ll be the first to admit sometimes I don’t know what I’m talking about.
    Also I really don’t think it’s fair to say I was attacking science and knowledge because I was basically trying to express my disagreement with the big bang theory. I believe God created science and knowledge and I would never criticize what God has created.
    As far as the missing gaps in scientific knowledge, I commend our scientist for their work but whether they ever find the answer to that gap or not doesn’t change God and who he is. A true Christian is also entirely comfortable with not knowing everything. I think it is human nature for us to not accept just not knowing to a certain degree. I think it’s natural for us to want to explore and try to solve the mysteries of the unknown. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree… I do appreciate the conversation though…

  30. First off, evolutionists (as if that’s some kins of religion) say absolutely nothing about the Big Bang. Evolution is the study of the rise and changes within living organisms. Cosmology may have something to say about the Big Bang. Evolution does not.

    Second, the quick, dirty and simple answer to where the universe came from before the Big Bang is, it always was there. It’s the same answer you would give if I asked where god came from. The big difference is, there is no divinity, motivation, consciousness or purpose required for the universe to exist.

    The more accurate answer, however, is that we don’t know. Now, while that may seem like a victory to you, it’s not the full picture. We don’t know, and we’re entirely comfortable with that, because science allows for that. What it doesn’t allow, however, is accepting that. When there’s a gap in scientific knowledge, someone is working to fill it. When there is a gap in your knowledge, you say, “God did it,” regardless of the accuracy or validity of that statement. Further, when science does answer a question, it needs to be put to public scrutiny. Nothing is accepted at first blush, it must be recreated, tested and hold up with what is known. And even if it does pass these tests, if something better comes along, the old information is discarded or reworked. Science is a constantly evolving endeavor, which is why it’s so adaptive and robust. Religion is staid and stagnant. What applied to bronze age farmers applies to you, and frankly, that doesn’t work for the modern world. You may take solace in the unchanging nature of god, but that’s all the positive its going to offer you. Solace.

    Now, as you respond to this with further attacks on science and knowledge, I’d like you to keep in mind two things. First, before you doubt science, I refer you back to the computer and internet connection you implied I cannot prove exists. You need look no farther than the marvel of science and knowledge that allows us to communicate to prove the strength and validity of science. And second, think on this. In an infinite universe, any probability, given enough time, is a certainty. So the chances that the stars and planets were formed, and Earth sits in just the right solar position with just the right chemical composition to give rise to life that starts simplistic and evolves over time to become us are slim chances, to be sure. But it’s a chance that was inevitable due to the infinite nature of the universe.

  31. Digit, your right, I cannot prove to you the existence of God but the belief in God makes a whole lot more sense to me than anything else I have come across in this world. There are a lot of things you know to be fact but you can’t prove it. When I say something about God I am not thinking that I am going to in someway say the right thing to convert you… I know that’s not going to happen… I’m not a preacher but I do have the right to voice my opinion.
    The Bible teaches that “in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and everything else” and the evolutionists teach that “in the beginning nothing became something and exploded.”
    According to the big bang theory our earth suddenly popped into existence and rapidly expanded and gave rise to billions of galaxies with their billions of stars.
    All logic predicts that if you have nothing, nothing will happen. It is against logic and science to believe the universe is the product of nothing. An empty bank account will not suddenly give rise to billions of dollars all on its own; someone has to put the money in there.
    If we accept that the universe and everything in it came from nothing then the universe and everything else is the product of nothing. That would be saying that nothing created reason and logic and everything else.

  32. What you are saying is that people make differing conclusions based on the same fact.
    What I’m saying is I came to a different conclusion because what you consider to be a fact, isn’t.
    A fact is something that is provable and testable. Your internet connection, if I were so inclined, is something I could test for myself.
    God’s existence is not provable, nor testable. And before you tell me about your personal story and knowing for sure because of it, keep in mind, if there is any, ANY other possibility that could explain your personal experience, then god’s existence as an explanation is not a fact, but a possibility (and a narrow one at that).
    Knowing in your heart is not proof. I knew in my heart that my girlfriend loved me, but I was wrong.

  33. Digit, All through history people have drawn opposing opinions from the same facts. Other words ones opinion of a factual statement may be the result of ones interpretation of the considered fact. I know it’s a fact that I have a computer hooked up to the internet…You can’t see it but you know I do…I really don’t want to limit myself to claiming a belief as fact only when I can convince others or produce something for them to see and touch especially when they have already made their mind up to disbelieve what I consider to be fact… I didn’t make that statement because I thought you would agree with me that it was fact but rather to let you know I do believe it to be a fact…

  34. Here’s a little something to keep the discussion going…

  35. John, you are very, very, VERY confused about the definition of the word “fact”.

  36. Littlefinger, You said being in church made you feel so witchy poo…and that it seemed bizarre… You thought to yourself the pastor was a weirdo… You say you think I’m a diluted idiot and then you say you appreciated taking a moment to focus on the importance of raising this precious child to be a loving and compassionate person…Makes a lot of sense…I see your point… Your right… I will let you be…

  37. John I think you are a diluted idiot! I’m sorry I can not take it any more. Why you think this is a good place to beat your bible is beyond me. I wish you’d go believe in fairy tails someplace else.

    Your metaphor does not work because there is no evidence that life without God means discomfort/hell (a pile up, whatever). Many many people have lived full and happy lives without God. What happens after death is unbeknownst to us.

    But hey whatever makes you feel better. The only difference here between you and me is that I do not push my opinion on others. You on the other hand do. All I know is that I don’t know which makes me far more intellegent. And my comfort with letting people be, makes me less obnoxious and far more considerate.

  38. God doesn’t do everything for me or anyone else…but we all need His help. He expects us all to be responsible individuals. I am all for new ideas… I never said I wasn’t…One can be receptive to new ideas without compromising the basic fundamentals of what one believes… Sometimes, I suppose, you do have to come across as intolerant or even stubborn… Some things are not all that significant but when your talking about belief in God, that’s a different situation…If you were standing beside an interstate highway and knew there was a big pile up around the bend and you saw someone flying down the road at a high rate of speed, I know you would flag them down and let them know about it…If they said “Man I just watched the 5 o’clock news and they didn’t say anything about it so just get out of my way”… I bet you would try to convince them they had better listen to you or they will have to suffer the consequences… Gods’ word is not just an old idea… Gods’ word is fact…It may sound like a repetitious argument to you but that is because Gods’ word never changes. It is the same today as it was from the beginning of time…Fact…
    Fortunately, God doesn’t give up on us easily… You’re much closer to Him than you think…To me life without Him makes absolutely no sense at all…We are only here for just a little while…If you really believe this is all there is for mankind then we are really a miserable bunch… There is a God and he sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of the world… You may not know Him now but standing somewhere in the shadows you will find Him and you’ll know Him by the nail prints in His hands…

  39. Digit~

    I love the amusement Metaphor. It’s brilliant.

    Over the Thanksgiving Holiday I attended my nieces Baptism as I am her Godmother. I have to tell you it was SO witchy poo. I have not been to a church in years and I was truly surprised at how bizarre it all seemed. They were making that poor child miserable holding her horizontal while she flailed and fought it, pouring cold water on her head. She started to cry as anyone would with people all hovering around her forcing her into discomfort no matter how she fought and all in the name of God. The Pastor said “if you can get her to stop crying I would like to pray”. She is a baby, crying is what they do, you weirdo. Give me that baby, I thought.

    After the ceremony the Pastor avoided me like the plague. The look on his face reminded me of my teenager when he knows I know he is full of shit. I was doing nothing differently than the crowd and yet he shook everyone’s hand but mine and my man’s as he left. The whole time I was wondering if he thought I was there to test his faith. I wondered about the internal battle he was having in his head about demons and angels and heaven and hell fire. What an interesting way to spend your time and energy.

    So so very strange these grown men and women who still have imaginary friends.

    I am thankful that I have an understanding family. They all know me well and they love me wholeheartedly. I know my attendance was important to them and I do think they saw how complacent I was behaving and how it was all for them. I appreciated the event in terms of stopping and taking a moment to all focus on the importance of raising this precious child to be a loving and compassionate person. Making a promise as a family to nurture that tiny little person is special. Why some imaginary man in the sky has to be a part of it is beyond me.

  40. I’d say I’m not closed minded at ALL!
    I’m generally unreceptive to unprovable and insubstantial claims, but that’s not closed minded, that’s just good sense! If someone came up to you and told you he knew a guy named Jeff who could make your life a paradise, all you have to do is give your devotion, money and thoughts to him, you’d have the good sense to tell him to back up and stop telling lies to people. To us, the promises of god are no more substantial than the promises of Jeff. The word of the Bible is no more authoritative than an issue of Highlights in a dentist’s office. The authority of the Bible is entirely self-contained; why should I believe a book because the book and it’s readers say I should? Why should I care what Jeff says? The answer to both questions is, I shouldn’t!

    Let me paint another picture for you.
    Let’s say you heard about the greatest amusement park in the world, Funcoland! No one who has been there has ever come back to tell about it because it’s that good. No one knows quite where it is, but if you take Highway 777, you’ll get there. So we all start driving. Then one day, I decide to get off Highway 777.
    “What’s your problem?” you yell, “Don’t you want to Funcoland?!”
    “Not really,” I reply.
    “How could you NOT want to go to the greatest amusement park in the world?” you beg.
    “Well, because I’ve been driving for years, and I have no reason to believe it even exists at all. So you keep driving, have fun. Meanwhile, I’m going to Machu Picchu and Rome and Tongo and Sydney and Kilamanjaro and St. Petersberg and Oslo and Yellowstone and Tokyo and Antarctica and Johannesburg.”

    Now, who’s more closed minded, the person who stays on that highway on some vague promise of a great time? Or is it the person who chooses to embrace all the wonders of what’s right there in front of them?

  41. Troll.

  42. and you’re not going to get anywhere in life by sitting on your haunches praying all the time waiting for your god to do everything for you. you’re using god as a cop-out, a crutch, to relieve yourself of difficult responsibilities nothing more. sure our country and indeed our world are in a tough position but the only way we ever got out of such situations was by doing something ourselves.

    moving on to your close-minded remark, first of all, here’s a definition to work from.

    Close-minded –
    Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.

    now look, if you want to believe in your god and all the trappings therein, that’s your prerogative. but for us, we’ve looked at those ideas critically and find they hold no water and thus no sway over us. there are no new ideas there to discuss and indeed the old ones aren’t worth the time as they’ve been debunked time and again. if anyone here is intolerant/unreceptive of new ideas it’d most certainly be you john of the blind faith will save the day crowd.

    what gets me is how your ilk keep coming back with the same tired arguments pounding away at them over and over as though repetition will actually accomplish your goals.

  43. Thumb, I am probably closer to retarded… Some things I’m not real sure about… but, I have been around a little and I know one thing for sure if I am retarded … I’m not alone… some of you guys are not far behind me… gullible? We all fall into that trap from time to time but just because you disagree with me doesn’t mean I’m gullible… I guess I could say the same thing about you…
    Littlefinger, I’m not the only one fishing…You guys are a little closed minded at times… I guess I’m just trying to get in the back door… You all keep your front door over-protected most of the time…
    ChaoFist, This discussion will end one of these days but for now I am afraid it will get worse before it gets better… This topic in this century is pretty much the same as it was 2000 years ago…
    President Bush, in my opinion was a very good president, not perfect but I think he did a great job…
    I must say I would vote for Condalisa Rice for president in a heart beat… President Obama can’t get this country back on track by himself. All of us as well as the President needs help that only God can provide… ChaoFist, I hate to be blunt but you missed it… Your not by yourself so don’t be hard on yourself… It is just beyond my comprehension how anyone could think mankind will ever get out of the mess the world is in without Gods help… If you don’t believe in God you better be believe in something… Mankind sure isn’t going to do it…

  44. Seriously, this discussion is still going?

    Sooo off topic, soooo out of the correct CENTURY.

    The push to convert the natives to christ? Oh come the fuck on…

    Psychologically the majority always tries to convert the minority, or kill them off. This is what is called discrimination and prejudice.

    We can all pretend they were well meaning nice folks trying to save some souls, but really? The majority was a bunch of fuck ups like the rest of us.. making some pathetic attempt at “normalcy” and giving themselves some sort of cause they could brag about to the other “normal” people.

    Seriously, this whole topic and debate has gotten way off track, and I think its silly.

    All U.S. presidents were christians? What about the first few who were free masons? Not christian at all.

    How about their actions? how christian are they? not a damn one acted anything like a christian if you ask me, including the bushes. And Obama is not a christian, he is the first president to be smart enough to shut his fucking trap about religion.

    God bless those of you who count, and fuck the rest.

  45. That’s okay John. I’ll cop to cold if you’ll cop to gullible bordering on retarded.

    My turkey stats were off, by the way. I should have said 70 million turkeys a year.

  46. Ok John,

    Now you are just fishing. And in my opinion foundering…


  1. Bible rules » Fist of Blog- the shiny guy always worries - [...] been having a record-setting discussion in the comments section of FatFinger’s post about American being founded on non-Biblical [...]

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